The Learning To Lead Show with Mark J. Cundiff

"Transforming Passion into Purpose," My Conversation with Steve Veale Part 1

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"Transforming Passion into Purpose," My Conversation with Steve Veale

In this episode, host Mark Cundiff interviews Steve Veale, the Executive Pastor of Westridge Church in Northwest Atlanta. Steve shares his 28-year journey in ministry and leadership, highlighting the church's notable achievements, including the planting of over 200 churches worldwide and its ministry to families with special needs. The conversation explores leadership lessons, the importance of investing in people, and the distinct challenges of leading in both nonprofit and for-profit organizations. Steve emphasizes the significance of vision, culture, and influence, particularly when working with volunteers. Additionally, Mark promotes his new book 'The Trust Gap,' which offers insights into increasing leadership effectiveness.

00:00 The Importance of Every Role in Ministry

00:19 Introduction to the Learning to Lead Show

00:37 Meet Steve V: Executive Pastor of Westridge Church

01:22 Steve's Leadership Journey

01:39 Promoting the Trust Gap Book

02:05 Interview with Steve V Begins

02:17 Early Leadership Lessons

05:37 Challenges and Growth in Leadership

06:43 Leading Volunteers vs. Paid Staff

10:37 The Impact of COVID on Volunteerism

15:55 Building and Maintaining a Positive Culture

21:52 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser

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LeaderNotes is a quick-hit companion to each episode of The Learning to Lead Show. In just 5–10 minutes, Mark Cundiff recaps the top leadership insights, frameworks, and action steps from each interview, designed for busy, growth-minded leaders who want to review and apply the episode’s biggest takeaways on the go.

It’s like the highlight reel + playbook—all in one.

Download This Episode's Leadernotes Here: LeaderNotes

To let them know that, man, every time you clean a toilet, you are pushing the ministry forward. You really are like you genuinely are. Because if you don't do that, guess what? Man, people aren't gonna wanna come here. You know what I mean? That's gross. So it, ma, I guess it just matters, is what I'm saying. Every, every little thing every role matters. Hello, welcome to the Learning to Lead Show. I'm your host, mark Cundiff This is the podcast where we help leaders learn on the go, and that introduction was with my friend Steve V, who is the executive pastor of Westridge Church in Northwest Atlanta. This is a ministry that he has been a part of since its inception in 1997. So he's been there 28 years, and over this 28 years, this church has planted over 200 new churches around the world. It is also ministering to special needs families. They have several hundred that. Attend their ministry there in the Westridge church. Steve has served in numerous leadership roles throughout the 40 years. When I first came to know him back in the early two thousands, he was the worship pastor for Westridge Church, and he has evolved and developed his leadership to grow in different ways. He has been married to his wife Christie for 35 years, and is the fathers of two young children, Micah and Sidney. You're gonna learn a little bit about. What it's like to lead in a large non-profit organization and some of the differences and some of the similarities to leading in a for-profit organization. We're gonna dive into our interview with Steve in just a moment. But first I want to promote my new book resource for you that's free. It's called the trust Gap. It gives you some insight into some things that may help you increase your leadership effectiveness. The trust gap dives into some things that we do that erode our trust with the people that we're leading. You can get your copy for free. Just go to the show notes, click the link, and you can have it sent to your inbox today. We're gonna dive in and learn from Steve. Steve. It's great to have you with brother today. How you doing? Old friend? Doing good buddy. Thank you for your time today and look forward to learning from you today. Give our audience a little bit a history of your leadership journey. You've. Worked in the nonprofit church world, for your career. Tell us what pulled you in that direction how has your leadership journey, transformed over the time working in that world? So I am in a nonprofit. I. World so to speak, become in a church world. And my dad was a senior pastor of, the church that, that I obviously attended as a child and as an young adult. When I was in high school there was a lady, Barb Craft, who took on a group of us students and really invested into us and gave us opportunities to go out into the community and do ministry really. And so it was in that environment that I really felt like this is something that I'd like to do for the rest of my life. I ended up gonna Liberty University met my wife there. And then served on the staff there at the church that was connected to the, to Liberty Thomas Row Baptist Church, served on staff there. For a season. And what I'll never forget about that is I made$9,000 a year full time. Then I went to a ministry in Bo Raton, Florida, a church there, and served in student ministry and young adult ministry and had a great experience there. And then came together with three of my friends from Liberty. I. We started a church together in in northwest Georgia outside of Marietta in a little town called Dallas, Georgia. I've been here this in fact, next month. We will have moved here to start the church 28 years ago. Been in that the same organization, the same church for all those years. I came here as the worship pastor was the worship pastor for 13 years and then I became, went out and helped one of our campuses get off the ground and going. Then worked in the area of adult discipleship for a season, and now I'm the executive pastor of the Church of Ministry you unpacked a lot there. One of the things I'd like to explore a little bit. Is, what was it like in those early days from a leadership standpoint being relatively new in leadership, in the church world and starting a brand new church. There had to be a lot of leadership lessons learned along the way there. What was that like? I think it can be summed up well this way. There was a very popular leadership conference called the Purpose-Driven Con Conference out there in California with Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. I remember that Brian went out there to this purpose-driven conference and after listening to why they did what they did and how they did it and all this other stuff, we just away from there just saying, that I think that we're the ignorance driven church. Just'cause we didn't even realize what we didn't know. Like we didn't know what we didn't know. So we, here we are, like we've got all the passion in the world. Like we had, we just, we were young. Yeah, we had a ton of passion and a lot of energy and a lot of drive, and a lot of faith and all of those things. Just not much experience. In fact, every, all four of us who came with our families to plant westridge, not one of us had been in the roles that we were taking on. When we started the church before, Brian had never been a senior leader. I'd never been in worship, I'd been in student ministry, did worship, but I would, I'd never led worship ministry. Paul hadn't been in any ministry as far as,'cause he was right outta college, and Dave had been in the parachurch world, none of us had done what we had done be, what we were doing then. And so it was a ton of learning and then it was not just learning about ministry, it was learning about life because we were, all raising money to be here and to do what we're doing. If you go back to your early years and look back and look at Young Steve as obviously not the same as Steve, 28 years,'cause you've had to grow into these different roles, what would you say, maybe it was a mistake or two early on. Some things maybe like you said, you didn't know what you didn't know. What were some things that maybe you were stumbling through back then that you've since learned? Hey, I wish I younger Steve had known to do this when I was trying to enter a leadership role. I think in a lot of ways that I didn't really understand the value really of investing in other people the way that I do now. I think it was something I really, had to learn and really grow in. Because I was just. I was just really young as a leader and and I just, I think that, I thought that everybody was going to be as passionate about what we were doing as I was. Yeah. Or that we were. And just to realize that you've committed your life to this and they're committed to it, but they may not be as committed to it as what you are. And you have to be, learn to be patient and bring people along, in that. And I think that's something that I just wasn't very good at. I didn't really understand that, early on. In the world that you're in. Y'all have thousands of vol volunteers that work with y'all for throughout the year, all the different ministries and projects and events that you all have. So you're highly, reliant on someone wanting to come and serve. And it's not from, you do have direct reports in your position, but the largest part of your organization is volunteers. Talk a little bit about how. Leading volunteers has impacted the way you lead overall and what the difference is. For someone leading from a positional authority versus through influence? I think you just said it. I think it's, I think it's all about influence. I think that's really all you've got is your ability to really influence them. And I think the way that you just have to learn how to do that is, through vision. You have to be rock solid. On your vision, because your vision is what you're using to motivate them. You're not using your authority, you're not using your money. You're not using your any of the things that you might have as a for-profit company, you don't have any of those things. What you do have is your mission and your vision and your values. And so I think that you have to become, re you have to be a constant student of your mission. And a lot of people have a mission statement, and they, and it's just a statement, just that's just there and then, and I don't know that they really consistently study it. I think if you asked our team about me, I think they would tell you that if there's one thing that I talk about all the time, it's our mission and our vision, our mission, and our vision even to our staff, which mostly our staff is paid. But still, I think you lead them the same way. And I think you've got to be, you've gotta be, you gotta maintain a passion for your vision and lay it out there so that people who are working all week and raising their kids and doing all their things and have all those responsibilities. By the way, for any pastors that might be listening, we take Mondays or Fridays off, they don't. Like they're working Monday through Friday or more. And then they have one day off on Saturday, and then you're taking up their whole, morning on Sunday. As they come to worship and then they're coming to serve you. You better give them a reason for that. You're the mission that you're inviting them into and the vision that you have for not only the ministry, but for them, you've gotta have a mi you've gotta have a vision for them. And then I think in, at least in the. In the church world, and I think this is true of the for-profit world as well, is when you care about them, your organization is also gonna do really well. You're gonna, you're gonna accomplish your goals for your, in other words, you're gonna grow your company and your company's gonna be really successful because of the investment you've made in individuals, over and over. I think Chick-fil-A's done a great job of that. They have really done such a good job at developing their people as people and their leaders as leaders. I was at Win shape at a. We'll get together last week when Shape is a, is the training arm of the nonprofit training arm of the Chick-fil-A Corporation. They have a program for, I think it's 50 or a hundred up and coming. College agent leaders that they are investing in, and they're just doing it. That they may not, they may or may not end up working for Chick-fil-A, but Chick-fil-A is raising them up to be, not just leaders at Chick-fil-A, but leaders in the world. And I just think that kind of attitude and that kind of, that kind of commitment to influence is what will help, is what will make you really successful in the long run. What do you see as some unique challenges that you run into in the church from, both a staffing leadership? So maybe start with that, what are some unique challenges that you've learned to deal with that you've maybe early on in your career you had struggled with? Then on the volunteer side, are there some unique challenges that you face on a regular basis? One of the challenges, the current challenge that we're experiencing in, in a nonprofit world is the fact that e everybody since COVID, I, we saw a very big change in the attitude of people coming out of COVID because our commodity that we really need from, we call'em team members, we don't call'em volunteers is we need their time. And if there's one thing that people got really used to during COVID was having a lot of their own time and they found out how much they enjoyed that working from home and being all around one another and all that other stuff. And even though they felt cooped up, I. They also got very very used to having their own time. And we accomplish what we believe that, the great commission is by bringing people together and serving one another. As this organization, this body of Christ, that everybody has a role to play there, but you gotta be present you gotta be, you gotta be in, if you're gonna serve somebody in person, you gotta be in person. And so I think that, and then I think it comes back to the fact that you gotta give them, you have to give them a reason to come. You gotta give them a reason to to believe that the time that they're spending with you is more valuable than the time that they would spend on their own. And that's not an easy task. To do. So that's, I would probably say that's today. I think again early on, I don't know that I really appreciated what it meant to really shepherd and care for people into that. Like I didn't I just, I think I, I brought a lot of expectation into my role of people. I got really frustrated when they didn't, go along with what with what I was really passionate about. I. And I just, I had to realize, these are human beings. They're, these are people Yeah. That they're, they're they're team members and they're, but they got their own, they have all their own stuff going on. I think that's probably the number one thing that I have learned of and probably in all the ministry, is you gotta care about people. One of our values at our church is people matter to God, and so they have to matter to us or they ought to matter to us. My role is I lead the staff and, but I treat them, even though they're staff members I don't ever, I don't ever want to have them do anything because they're paid. I want them to do what they're doing because they're super passionate about it and they see that this is more than just something to do. It's a person to be. Because if I do that, I'll get the other one. Yeah. Said that a little bit earlier. If I can show them that they are a really valuable part of the team Than what than everybody's bought in deeper. I have to manage less. I don't have to worry about, as much about their time and how they're spending their time. I can trust, I gain a lot of trust. So they get, they gain a lot of trust from me and because I just know that they get it. Yeah. And they're chasing it, at different levels. Different people get it at different levels. But even, the people who I would say are probably farthest from the hands-on ministry, which in our case might be you, would you might say, our facilities team. So they, they clean and take care of facility. They're not small group leaders. They're not, leading ministries on Sunday mornings. They're, cleaning up the building, and cleaning toilets and all of that. But if you can help them see that, there was this very specific role in the Old Testament for people who prepared the temple for the people to come into worship. And they were a very, they were an incredibly important. Group of people called the Levites. It was a whole lineage of people that God had given that task to, and they're very important. And so they are preparing the temple for worship as much as the worship leader is preparing the heart for the word, for the Bible to be taught. To let them know that, man, every time you clean a toilet, you are pushing the ministry forward. You really are like you genuinely are. Because if you don't do that, guess what? Man, people aren't gonna wanna come here. Yes. You know what I mean? That's gross. Yeah. And so it, ma, I guess it just matters, is what I'm saying. Every, every little thing every role matters. The people in those roles, they're like the unseen heroes because if they're doing a great job. Nobody notices, but if they That's right. Weren't doing a great job, then everybody's gonna be noticing and complaining and like you said, not coming. We always. Talk to our parking team and our door holders and the, our host team and all that, that most people have decided whether they're coming back before they ever walk into the worship center. They've already decided, yeah, church is too big, church is too old, church is too unfriendly, people are too weird. All of the things people have already a lot of people have already made the decision if they're coming back before they've even heard the pastor say a word. Yes. And and that regard, if that's true. Then man they are incredibly important how they greet people at the door.'cause you never know who is walking in Yeah. In your door and what they have dealt with that week. You have no idea. Yeah. What burden they're bringing in to your meeting. And so I. I think that, those little things that that really measure up to be really big things are whether I, it is where I think it's gained and lost in in success. I think. So many of these things you're talking about really, like Patrick Lencioni would talk about his culture the culture, you, the culture, I know the culture that you've developed there, having seen it over the years, and y'all have had ups and downs with that. It's, yeah, we have, it's never a straight line. No, but you have to be intentional about it. Tell me how you and your leadership team are. Are intentional about the culture.'cause you don't just develop this with, it just doesn't happen even in the church world, it doesn't just happen. So I'm gonna say a lot of things that are obvious to people who are probably listening, obviously it starts at the top. And Brian leads our executive team. And he leads it in this way. And then, and our leadership team, I lead our, all of our leadership our leadership team. And we start every, I start all my one-on-ones and I start all of our leadership team meetings, checking in with how they're doing. I. Not just how they're doing in their ministry, but how are you doing and how is your family doing? And there's a lot of my one-on-ones when I have a list of things that we need to get through that we never get to. Because you know why? Because somebody's having a really hard week or they're wrestling with a people problem or a personal problem or a marriage problem or something like that. And and that and I think that's. I think that's how we have to lead, whether we're a pastor or not. I happen to be a pastor. I think I would lead like that no matter what organization. I know I would no matter what organization. Because they can't just see as a solution to a problem. They have to see themselves. I. They have to know that I see them as a person. That I really do care about them. And so that happens at a leadership level. And then we, one of, one of the habits that we have is we wanna make, and I try to lead this way, that we want every time we gather our people together, that it is fun and it is meaningful. So we're gonna have a great time, but you're also gonna go away with having grown. And whatever growth looks like, it might be inspiration or it might be, helping your organ, in your part of the organization to answer the questions that you have and need. And it doesn't mean that there aren't some hard conversations and some tough, truth that gets, has to get, shared and those kind of things. You have to work through some really hard things and all of that stuff. But as an example, here's an example about culture. First of all, lemme say this culture bleeds right? It bleeds and it runs downhill. And that's why it starts at the top. And so in my mind, if I'm, if I can have a great culture among our, those, I lead then and ask and model I. That kind of a culture to the people that I lead, then they're gonna lead that way to the people that they lead. And and all the way down it goes. And so with our staff, we gather with our staff a couple of times a month. And one of the things that we gather to do once a month is staff church. A lot of our staff can't be real present during our church services, even though we have three because they are leading team members.. They are responsible for for all the stuff and with the organization. So even if they're sitting, this is so true of me. Even if I'm sitting there listening to the worship and involved in the worship and listening to the message, my mind is racing. About all kinds of things during I'm at work. I, and that's really hard. And so we recognize that in our team. And so we have this thing we call staff church once a month and we bring in a special speaker people we compensate speakers to come in and to teach. Sometimes it's our staff, but we're moving more towards people outside of our staff. We have great worship. We have a great message, but we also laugh really hard. We always have a fun thing that we're gonna do together. And so we're gonna laugh, we're gonna compete. We have the craziest competitions. We did a final four thing, where we brought in some of those little, those little, basketball hoops, you know that? You know that, that kind of have they return the ball to you and you keep shooting. They have'em, I think they're called one shot or something like that. So we brought two of those in there and we did a, we did our own little bracket right there, on, and we just went real quick, and came down to. The final person and they won. They won a hundred dollars gift card. Cool. That's really cool for winning that. And then we do a thing with staff Value award. Where we have one person who received it last month, thinks all through the month. Of somebody that they're seeing emulate our values, our staff values in their work. Then they get up and they talk about that and give them a gift. Give another gift. Typically it's a gift card and, but that's not even a, that's not what they care about. It's the recognition. If somebody, taking five minutes to talk about what they recognize in them. So all of this is culture and as we're, continuing to build culture, the other thing is we always celebrate. We always celebrate what God is doing. Every week stories. And some of times that's just impromptu and other times it's planned. My thought is this, that first of all, I want, again, I want those meetings to be the highlight of their month. I want them to feel, I want them to feel seen. I want them to feel cared for. I want them to feel challenged. I want them to feel sent. All of those things. I think the best chance I have from my position to influence them and help them to influence, and trust them. To lead from that wherever they're leading, whatever teams and groups they might be leading to lead the same way. And I've heard it a hundred times, that's what happens. That they're inspired by that. And try to emulate it in their small groups or in their ministry teams or in their huddles, as they gather with their volunteers or their team members before a group. They wanna make that time when they see me working really hard. To make sure that time is well thought out and that I'm respecting their time enough to plan that really well. Then when they have their huddle before a Sunday morning, they're doing the same, not perfectly. We have some that, that don't do it as well as others, but generally I think that they're carrying out, carrying on the culture. That, that and that's what I can do. I don't know what el I don't know what more I can do but I can do that. Yeah. And I try to be highly intentional around that. Thanks for joining the Learning to Lead Show. We got some great leadership, Jims from Steve today. Make sure you tune in to the next episode to get the rest of the conversation we had with Steve and learn some more great leadership tips. Make sure you go to your podcast player and give us a five rating. He help us spread the word about the Learn Learning to Lead show. Help us get that word out to your friends and coworkers, and also make sure you get a copy of the trust gap. It's in the show notes. It's a link that you can get the book and learn a little bit about how the trust gap could be eroding your leadership effectiveness. Also make sure you download our leader notes. That's a summary of the key topics that we've talked through today, and that'll give you a summary that you can review and perhaps go over with your team as a lunch and learn for your leadership topics for this week. We'll see you next time in part two of our journey with Steve on the leadership of a nonprofit.