The Learning To Lead Show with Mark J. Cundiff

"Courage, Humility, and Mud: Leadership Takeaways from Robert Owens

• Mark Cundiff

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Leadership Reflections with Insights from Robert Owens

In this episode of the Learning to Lead Show, host Mark Kiv reflects on his compelling conversation with Robert Owens, highlighting key leadership lessons from Owens' career experiences. The discussion includes overcoming adversity, such as Owens' transition from CEO to working under a hostile competitor, and persevering with humility and courage. Key takeaways include the importance of servant leadership, clear communication, timely feedback, and maintaining a positive mindset during challenging times. Kiv also shares insights from his book, 'The Trust Gap,' available for free in the show notes.

00:00 Welcome to the Learning to Lead Show

00:07 Introduction to Today's Episode

00:24 Sponsor Message: The Trust Gap

00:52 Leadership Lessons from Robert Owens

01:36 Overcoming Adversity with Humility and Courage

03:23 Leading by Example: In the Trenches

04:31 Key Takeaways and Quotes

07:12 Three Pillars of Effective Leadership

09:21 Final Reflections and Conclusion

10:09 Closing Remarks and Call to Action


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🔎 About LeaderNotes


LeaderNotes is a quick-hit companion to each episode of The Learning to Lead Show. In just 5–10 minutes, Mark Cundiff recaps the top leadership insights, frameworks, and action steps from each interview, designed for busy, growth-minded leaders who want to review and apply the episode’s biggest takeaways on the go.


It’s like the highlight reel + playbook—all in one.


Download This Episode's Leadernotes Here: LeaderNotes


Hello and welcome to the Learning to Lead Show where we help leaders learn on the go. I'm your host, mark Kiv, and today we're gonna share some leadership reflections on my conversation with Robert Owens. I hope you had a chance to listen to the two episodes where we learned from his experience throughout his career and the different things that. Today's episode is sponsored by. The trust gap. It's a book that I've written that highlights some of the difficulties that some leaders face in developing a trust gap with their people. It is a free book that you can get in the show notes. Just look under the show notes and you'll get a link to go there and. Grab your copy free and learn a little bit about the trust gap and how to bridge it and how to make your leadership more effective. Now, I want to talk a little bit about what we learned from Robert Owens. He really laid out some great information for us as leaders to learn from as he shared some really challenging times. One of the most pivotal points of the conversation was when he shares that on a Friday afternoon, he was the CEO of his own company. He sells that company and then he comes in on Monday and he's basically working for a competitor now. And this was a competitor who didn't like Robert and had some animosity towards him. His way of dealing with Robert was to put him in a broom closet. So you go from being CEO of your own company on Friday afternoon, and then you come in on Monday and your office is a broom closet. How would you respond to that? Robert showed us that he. Responded with humility and courage and worked through the situation in a relatively short period of time. I'm sure it seemed like a really long time for him. During that tenure that he went through. He ended up moving back into a leadership position within the company, and now he is the vice president over five different. Entities with the company that he works now. But during that dark time, during that challenging time, I knew Robert and we would have conversations about the different things. And I learned a lot about Robert in this interview and in this conversation that I hadn't heard before, behind the scenes type stuff that he hadn't shared, with me in the past. And it was just. Compelling to hear how he walked through those seasons. And what I hoped is that this is an encouragement to you if you're going through a dark time. If you're going through a period where the clouds are overhead you're being discouraged by someone you're working for or a situation that you're in. Just realize that it's a season, these seasons don't last forever. And what Robert did is he learned how to walk with courage through this with grace. One of the things I remember during this time. I would see Robert usually once a week at least, and every time I saw Robert, he always had a smile on his face. He always had a hug, and he was always having a positive outlook on how to get through the situation. Yes, he was discouraged and he was beaten down at times, but he always had an optimistic outlook, an optimistic way of looking at things, a positive mindset to move through it. The other key lesson that I got from Robert during this was when. He was striving to build his own company and they needed to get an order out and they had some people out and they couldn't get the work done during the normal work week, and their customer responded to them saying, Hey, we've gotta have this ready by Monday. So him and his wife went down with some other family members and worked with the crew, got muddy, got concrete all over themselves. And help get the job done. Just showing doing, what it takes, showing his people. That leadership can be done in the trenches, and that's another thing that you can really take away from this interview, this conversation with Robert, is that he's always been willing to do what it takes to make things happen. So are you that kind of leader? Are you the leader that's willing to get in there and make things happen? One of the things that he talks about is how you know the crisis that you're in. It can reveal character, it can show that the hard times. Are going to build you and make you into the leader that you need to be if you respond in appropriate ways. One of the things that I liked is listening to some of the quotes that he had that I just reflected on. One thing he said is, leadership is something you learn by doing and often by failing. Leadership is a taking action. Actually taking action and seeing what happens and learning from the failures, and then learning from the successes, and then moving on from there. He says, I didn't take over the company because I was ready. I took it over because there was no one else. This was when early in his career, he was just given the keys because one of the key leaders passed away he had stepped in and began to learn the business, and then overnight this guy passes away, and then he was given the keys to run it. So he had to learn on the go. He had to learn quick and just get in there and do the work and learn. He wasn't promoted because he was ready, but he was promoted because he was available and he had become the person that was the most expert in that situation. He says, servant leadership isn't a buzzword. It's putting your boots on, grabbing a shovel and showing up. So think about that. How does that apply to the situation you're in? What kind of situation do you need to do? Jump in and be the leader? He also talks about one of his good friends. Being a mentor, Tommy Allgood, he says he, he taught'em how people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. That's a great phrase that John Maxwell has used. Maya Angelo professor, my college at Wake Forest, she used that same phrase, thinking about that. People need to know how much you care. So ask yourself, do your people know how much you care? Do they understand that you really care about their wellbeing and how you can help them be a better team member? How you can help them be a better leader in your organization? Do they understand that you care about them as a person, about their family, about what's driving them? I like this quote that he shared. I used to think everyone thought like me. That was my biggest leadership blind spot. So Robert goes back to earlier in his career where he was making assumptions, and sometimes as leaders we make assumptions that people think like us, that they work like us, that they do things like us, and we make these assumptions about people and we don't interact with them in a way. We're mentoring them, teaching them, and bringing them along to understand our true expectations. There are three key things I think, that need to take place for us to be effective as leaders, and these are three things I always try to make sure. That when I'm leading an organization, leading a group of people that I put into place, that one I set out and give them clear expectations. If we don't give them clear expectations, we fall under this trap where we make these assumptions that they understand what we want them to do. And then the second thing is provide regular, timely, effective feedback. So make sure you give them clear expectations, give them feedback on how. They are either meeting those expectations or if they're not meeting those expectations, what they need to do to meet those expectations. And then three, develop a culture of accountability. So if we're going out and we're making assumptions and we're not giving them clear expectations. Then we can't hold them accountable, so we need to make sure that we're com communicating effectively, clear expectations that we're communicating good feedback. Then we're able to have a culture of accountability. One of the other quotes that I really liked that he said was, you, can't you? He goes, you earn trust by going first, by willing to do the hard things yourself. And so he is just there talking about being a great example, and he goes on and shares this other quote. He goes, my wife and I laid rebar in the mud, covered in concrete because the job had to get done. That's leadership. So where does this apply in your situation? Where do you need to get in the mud and help your people, show them what needs to be done so that they're gonna be effective? And then if you remember, he goes on later in the interview to talk about how many of those people that he was working with during that situation, or with him some 30 years later. So you can plant seeds with your organization and with your team that can last. A lifetime or a career if you do it correctly. And he goes, this quote is, is just one of the most compelling to me is he goes, I moved from a corner office to a broom closet and it taught me more about leadership than any title ever could. And I want to just end with that. So think about that. Think about the hardships. Think about the challenges that you face. Think about the things that you're going through and what they're teaching. You think about the process of growing as a leader, and that's what we're all about here. Learning to lead no matter if you're brand new in a leadership role. Or you've been in leadership for 30, 40, 50 years. There's always a learning element. There's always a growing element. And think about what are the lessons that you're learning today? What are the things that you're doing that can help you be more effective tomorrow? That's it for today's Learning to Lead Show. Make sure you go to the show notes and claim your free book, the Trust gap while your people aren't listening to you and how to fix it. Make sure that you go on your favorite podcast player. Give us a rating of five to help us spread the word. And then also share this with your friends and family coworkers and let them know what we're doing here on the Learning to Lead Show. I.